Interview with Deborah Lipstatic - "Holocaust Denial is Pervasive, Growing, and Doomed"

November 22, 2009

by Michael K. Smith

New York City -- Speaking from the Bellevue psychiatric ward where she is undergoing evaluation for advanced schizophrenia, Holocaust Confirmer Deborah Lipstatic today declared, "The situation is critical and victory is at hand" in the war on Holocaust heresy.

Lipstatic, Professor of Victimology at Coca Cola University in Atlanta, insisted that Holocaust denial is not a legitimate field of study and entirely worthless intellectually, which, she said, explains why she devotes herself night and day to refuting its claims.

This year marks nine years since historian David Irving lost his libel suit against Lipstatic, who chronicled her battle against him in her book, “Money Can't Buy Love But It Can Buy The Courts - How I Single-Handedly Defeated David Irving With Swarms of Lawyers and Researchers and an Avalanche of Holocaust Industry Cash" (Orthodox Books, 2000).

Legalienate's editors were generously granted a lengthy interview with her on the recently proclaimed Holocaust Obsession Day, which lasts for 24 weeks instead of what Lipstatic called the "stingy" 24 hours of the standard day. Speaking from the isolated back ward where she currently resides, she explained how to make failure look like victory, why freedom requires adherence to a single view, and how Holocaust denial plays a crucial role in forging Jewish identity, especially among Gentiles.

LEGALIENATE: Nine years later, how would you characterize the Irving trial?

LIPSTATIC: It was a resounding victory for the world inside my head. I went head-to-head with the world's leading Holocaust denier and I single-handedly won a judgment stating that historical facts are not to be determined by the courts.

LEGALIENATE: But wasn't that obvious from the beginning?

LIPSTATIC: Not to me it wasn't.

LEGALIENATE: Have you solved the problem of Holocaust denial?

LIPSTATIC: Of course not. But we did provide precise explanations proving that what Deniers say are complete deviations from what we say. We didn't prove what happened, and nobody else better either, but we proved that what they say happened could not possibly have happened if what we say happened, happened. And to quote George Bush the Elder, "what we say, goes."

LEGALIENATE: I see. How do you advise people to deal with Holocaust deniers?

LIPSTATIC: The first way is to see if the facts prove the case: If they say “At this meeting Hitler said X, Y and Z," you can go and check if they changed the date. If they say Hitler said X, Y and Z on a Wednesday, but it was actually a Tuesday, you can be sure you are dealing with lying scum and dismiss their argument.

The second way is deductive reasoning or logic. Deniers will say that the very fact that there are so many survivors proves that the Holocaust couldn't have been as ruthlessly efficient as we say it was, because if the Germans were all-powerful and utterly determined to kill every last Jew, how did more than a million Jews survive?" You counter that by saying that there were a lot of miraculous escapes, because the Jews were plucky and determined and learned to jump off the transport trucks just in the nick of time.

LEGALIENATE: Why weren't they gunned down?

LIPSTATIC: They ran between the bullets.

LEGALIENATE: Oh.

LIPSTATIC: The third way of refuting Deniers is by citing the facts: If they say, “How do we know there were gas chambers?” you can say, “Let me show you the German plans for gas chambers.” But if they say, "Where is the forensic proof of the gas chambers themselves?" you can reply, "Let me show you Israel's plans to have people like you extradited and put on trial for Holocaust denial." That clinches the argument.

LEGALIENATE: Why don't you debate deniers?

LIPSTATIC: It's like trying to convince a member of the flat earth society that the earth is round. There's no point.

LEGALIENATE: But you can show a flat earther a picture of the round earth. Do you have a picture of a mass gassing chamber?

LIPSTATIC: No, but it wouldn't matter if we did. Deniers are irrational. They think absence of evidence is evidence of absence of evidence. They're completely irrational.

LEGALIENATE: How are they successful then?

LIPSTATIC: The usual way. They confuse people with convoluted explanations that lead nowhere. Remember, Holocaust denial is anti-Semitism, and anti-Semitism is hatred of Israel, and hatred of Israel is anti-Jewish prejudice, and anti-Jewish prejudice is congenital in Gentiles, so it's impossible to eliminate, but we must try to do the impossible because it's ennobling and we owe it to the victims of the Holocaust.

LEGALIENATE: I see. You're sure there's no point in debating your opponents?

LIPSTATIC: If you try to argue with a person who is committed to a completely illogical premise, then you're lost to begin with -- you're already sucked into their world of fantasy.

LEGALIENATE: So, it's like imaginary numbers in mathematics. They don't really exist, can't exist. After all, what's the square root of a negative number?

LIPSTATIC: Exactly.

LEGALIENATE: So math teachers who force kids to study that stuff are nutcases who can't face reality. The kids have ample reason to turn them in.

LIPSTATIC: Right. They're defaming the rational numbers. Have them call the Simon Wiesenthal Center. They have a program to extradite them to Israel to stand trial for numerical anti-Semitism.

LEGALIENATE: How has Holocaust denial changed since your trial and book?

LIPSTATIC: Well, recently we've seen the emergence of both "hard core" and “soft-core” denial. Hard-core denial is saying, "I need forensic evidence of mass gassing chambers before I can believe in them." That's hard core because once you get on the slippery slope of requiring material evidence for your beliefs it becomes addictive and you stop believing just for belief's sake, or because there are Holocaust specials pouring out of the TV twenty-four hours a day, and you start thinking, "Why should I believe in something that no one can show me the material basis of?" The next thing you know you don't believe in UFOs or penis-enlargement, and the entire basis of civilized order collapses.

LEGALIENATE: I'm convinced. And soft-core denial?

LIPSTATIC: Soft-core is more subtle. It's “Why do we have to hear so much about the Holocaust?” Or "Haven't the Jews done anything other than be exterminated in Nazi gas chambers?" The person who makes this kind of remark is gullible, not hateful, so they're worth talking to. Just tell them, "You have to hear constantly about the Holocaust because it's the only historical event that ever had any real importance." But if they don't buy that, brand them an anti-Semite and hound them mercilessly. It's for their own good.

LEGALIENATE: How do you respond to those who compare Nazi treatment of the Jews to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians?

LIPSTATIC: You have to zero in on what genocide is -- you can say, "A genocide is something done to the Jews, never by them, or a lesser genocide done to lesser people, but which is endorsed by Jewish groups to help take heat off of Israel. Like Darfur." The point is that only Jewish suffering counts. Gentiles are thick, so you can't make this point too often.

LEGALIENATE: Is Holocaust denial on the rise?

LIPSTATIC: Definitely. Holocaust denial is pervasive, growing, and doomed. It is incredibly serious that it is taking over, but at the same time utterly trivial and quite meaningless. We must ignore it and crush it - right away.

-----Michael K. Smith is the author of "Portraits of Empire" and "The Madness of King George" (illustrations by Matt Wuerker), both from Common Courage Press. He can be reached at proheresy@yahoo.com